precarious in parenting

UMxx

Brick created on 02/07/2008 @ 12:56

Your brick story

I had some time with a friend this evening and when I finished I found my daughter behind me with her arms around me asking if I could talk to her about something serious. so her brother was asked to give us some privacy and she sat on a chair near me looking very pale and told me she had some bad news. You know there are moments when as a parent I just wonder why my kids don't hear my heart banging. Any how she told me that she was really very sorry but she was quite crazy and explained that she could hear voices. This is my 11 year old girl. These voices she hears are mine, my husband and a woman who she has been hearing since she wore corrective spectacles when she was about 4 but remembers the voice getting stronger and stronger and taunting her. The other voices - mine and husbands have only come to her in the last two years and have become angrier and angrier with her. She was very lucid about being able to tie in the voices with events in the last few years. She said she finds it very difficult to concentrate and has been sleeping out in the lounge room as the only time the voices are yelling loudly - well often fighting - is when we are around.

I should start talking about the what did I do .. Well by this time I have her legs on my lap and we are facing each other .. I have hold of her legs and feet and she is sitting there with big tears slowly plopping off her cheeks. At first I just asked her questions about the voices and then said that I thought that quite a few people heard voices and that it didn't mean she was crazy - certainly she wasn't any crazier than I am. what a weak little smile. I told her that I have had voices with me for as long as I could remember and told her a bit about me and how I never was as brave as she was and never told my mum because I didn't think she would cope. So it seemed she was a lot like me after all - the smile got a bit more like a sense of relief and we talked about what we share in common. I explained that I don't generally tell people about my voices and only a couple of people know. She asked who of course and so I then had to explain that I go and see a special kind of doctor who I talk to about my voices and how I need to talk about being depressed. Quite a moment.

Not knowing what else to do - but hearing clearly some of the words of Jomo telling me to be nicer to the brains trust in my head we talked about trying to teach the voices in her head some quieter ways of talking and asking for them to speak more slowly and less loudly. We did this for a while and when I asked what was happening she got very teary and said she was in big trouble for telling me that she could hear them - so we then had to tell them that it was okay - I wasn't cross or upset but I just needed to spend the time with her now.

I have wrapped her up in a big doona and put her to sleep on the lounge near me. She has the dog and cat wrapped up with her.

I would like to beleive that this hasn't happened. I would like to believe that she has somehow found a way to listen in to my sessions with the psych - it was just so eerily familiar in so many ways . I could even be persuaded to believe that she has natural hacking talents and has broken into my pc and read my notes. But these are password protected and she doesn't dare come near this laptop as it my work pc. I do believe her - I have no doubts that this is not a fanciful story - but I just can't explain the pain of this. I know that someone is going to try to explain rationally that this can't be hereditary but how can it not be? I don't know quite what to do with this and so far I have written what was probably an incoherent email to a mate and then decided to just make this brick. I don't think I am up to a TA on this just yet - I have shared it with you just because I need you lot my support team to know what this is about as I am feeling a bit like I am under another big wave dragging on the bottom of the sea bed again. Apart from knowing that I need to find a time to tell my husband - I have no plans to do anything. All I know is that I think this is one thing that I feel fairly well equipped to deal with at one level and out of my depth at another. I don't think this is one of my dreams. But if I wake up and it is morning I am going to be very relieved.

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Comments

02/07/2008 @ 13:39 Wolfie said

Oh UM. What an extraordinary evening you have had - as if your life were not already full of worry, you have an additional responsibility.
So many positive things came out this evening though - your daughter trusts you enough to tell you, you were able to tell her that she is not alone and you were then able to share it with us.
Let yourself be lead by your daughter in terms of steps that you need to take - I know you will do the right thing.
Thank you for your trust and I am thinking of you. Wx
02/07/2008 @ 13:52 roze said

Parenting may be precarious yet i found myself reading this with tears running down my cheeks full of admiration for how you made such a finely balanced situation feel safe for your daughter. You are a remarkable person UM and i am here for as many ticks as you ever need. much love roze xxx
02/07/2008 @ 14:12 Mebenji said

Dear UM
How sad and distressing for you and frightening for your daughter. I'm so glad she has you to support and guide her, with your own experience to guide you. The hostility of the voices she hears is of particular concern though, and that the voices were telling her she was in trouble for having told you about them. As you know, these voices constant, loud and compelling can wear you down, wear down your defences. You put a lot of energy into just trying to function and interact with the world and it's demands - how hard it must be for her to study and be attentive at school! Or doing homework. Or how confusing is it for her to know when it is your real voice as opposed to the very real sounding voice in her head and her father's voice as well? Are there times she is not sure of anything she heard is from you and your husband or were those the voices? I hope for your daughter you can teach these voices their place and how to behave better towards your daughter. I don't really understand if that is possible - how have you dealt with them yourself?
I think if you can be the one to help her and guide her, that would be best for now. It depends how well she and you cope with this. You might need to consider outside help for her. You will talk to your own Therapist about it, I'm sure. Maybe she has some more useful suggestions for you than I do.
I think in an odd way she is 'lucky' she has you, has told you - she and you are already miles ahead of where you were when you were her age, coping alone.
(((Hugsalot))) to both of you.
-Mebenji
02/07/2008 @ 15:19 UMxx said

I can't explain how odd this is. When I was little these voices were the reason that I just knew I was an alien because I could hear them talking and not all of them were angry - I have a mix - including the crying little one.
But I have to say this is absolutely the first time in my whole life that I have ever felt relieved to have my own brain crew. If nothing else at least this some part of her life that we will understand. I guess I haven't bothered learning much about these voices in terms of theory - but if there is any part of my odd mind that I let be then it is probably them - except when they are terribly badly behaved and it is miserable - largely it is kind of like a power struggle at times and maybe that's why I have always been good at crowd control - I learnt it early. I am other than that completely uncertain of a range of things and am touring around the bricks just kind of going for a mental walk = it is too cold right no to go out. I asked her if she thought that talking to someone else might help and she was fairly firm - no - I think I saw myself in her look. I think we will have to be fairly creative in what we do for a while until we work out a new way of parenting. Well we have some competition - it all makes too much sense about how she can't hear obvious noises when she is by herself but can if the tellie is on.
02/07/2008 @ 15:19 UMxx said

(it wouldn't take the length of this so here is the second bit) I know we will get there I just am flopping around between a sense of "shit I have passed this on" and thank goodness this is something I know something about. I don't know why but all I keep getting flashes of is the part of that book "Jesus wants me for a sunbeam" where one of the parents decides to die with his terminal son so the child can die peacefully knowing that they will be in heaven together. Brisbane based author - very quirky but that was is quite sad in places. Don't know what it has to do with any of this - I think I am losing focus and am off to look at a couple of bricks.
Thanks for your messages roze, wolfie and benj. I am so grateful.
03/07/2008 @ 02:28 cate said

My arms are reaching out to you and your daughter UM . I have had that awful feeling that the waves are dragging me out and under but never had the voices to deal with other than the silent one that is I think in all of us . I believe you will both get through this with support . I think it's too much to ask of your self to do it alone though. Have you thought of talking to your daughter about visiting your therapist for a few sessions together ?
As others have pointed out there is a big plus in that she has opened up to you something you were unable to share as a young child . How alone and frightened you must have felt ! Try not to focus on the heredity bit there's not much we can do with what is passed on instead remind yourself that you are a wonderful role model and always will be to your children . You have coped and that is something she can remind herself of in the down times . I hope you are able to find help soon . Your therapist may even be able to get you in touch with support groups . With lots of love , Cate
03/07/2008 @ 09:17 Mebenji said

Hi UM,

Yeah, I too hope you don't get caught up in any self-blaming or guilt. I just ask you, how much did you know about genetics and inheritance when you and hubby were considering bringing children into the world?
Besides, you have given your daughter so much more in her genetic inheritance - you know and can see these traits, physical attributes etc. You and hubby have given her a fine environment to be raised, safe and healthy. I keep thinking how it must have been so frightening, having heard those voices, telling her she'll be in trouble if sh tell you, yet she did. That means, your presence, your REAL presence in her mind is stronger than these horrible voices, and she was able to trust that and tell you, resisting their warnings/threats (for children, warnings can sound an awful lot like threats).

I think, if you feel you can, it may be better to work on helping your daughter through your therapist. I don't know what your therapist would think of this - I just think if your therapist can give you something to take back to your daughter (as if it comes from you) it would be more effective. You are a strong presence in her life.
...
03/07/2008 @ 09:19 Mebenji said

......
Being introduced to a therapist just might be too much right now. Kids don't want to be singled out like that. She already had fears of being 'crazy' - how would it feel for her to be seen going into a therapists office? I imagine she could be stressed out thinking someone she knows, or who knows someone she knows, will see her and talk will begin.

She is likely feeling shaky now, why add to it, if it is not necessary. I think you should monitor and track what the voices are saying, and how well she is able to deal with them. If they tell her to do something she knows is wrong, can she resist? Keep track of that, if that is what these voices do. She has told you they have become worse, are they continuing to get worse - especially now she has told you?

Does she have a diary? That might help her to cope, talk about, put into words (though from what you said, she was well able to express herself too.) It may just help to distract her. If you don't specify what it should be for, she just might write stories in it, or poems, (that's what I did when I first bought a little diary book - I started writing poems, drew little doodles, copies little poems by Ogden Nash into it) Or like my youngest step sister write in it every day "I Love EDDIE" (& when she didn't anymore, she scribbled over those entries in bright red pen. :) oh the joys of boy/girl craziness! I never knew it myself, but saw it very vividly in all my step-sisters.)

(((Hugs))) -Mebenji
03/07/2008 @ 10:52 UMxx said

Well Cate and benj, It is all quite new yet and I don't want to put Lucy under intensive scrutiny so we are not talking too much about actions and plans but just how she is. Not surprisingly she had a better day today - I talked to her teachers about thinking about giving her work to do in smaller chucks rather than in big 3 week lots. She is in a quiet mood but is okay. So much seems clearer now. She has a diary/journal and writes in it often - I started that a couple of years ago. I don't see that one it is her business. She has a book that I get her to write in for me - like what are the ten things you think will make you feel better - that sort of thing - why she feels anxious and how much harder she finds life when she is tired, what colour she is you know that typical kid stuff. She writes lots of stories, song lyric and draws also. Right now she is not wanting to talk to anyone outside of me - I don't think I will push her - I want to have a conversation about how I find value in talking to my psych and she might move on from there. I have the next couple of weeks with her. So we will have lots of time for chats and cups of tea. Thanks Cate and benj - kind of not what I thought my happen this week!
03/07/2008 @ 11:41 cate said

There are happenings that come out of left and right field all at once - takes your breath away- literally . I agree the issue of outside help cannot be pushed. It would be quite daunting to open up to a stranger which is why if she is amenable to the idea - I suggested that you could offer to be there with her when and if she is willing. The fact that you understand what she is going through is such a positive in an otherwise very worrying situation. I think lifting the pressure at school by programming the work in small lots will make it that much easier to deal with . Is she ok with this idea ? I recall she mentioned recently that she felt she wasn't coping. Has she had to repeat any grades?
When i was very ill - literally at death's door - I started my younger daughter at school far too young as I was not coping at home . At the year's end I felt she she should repeat but was talked down . I was too weak to argue and the teacher was of no help. When she changed schools later on she was able to repeat a grade . It was the best thing for her . I know your situation is quite different UM but when they miss out on schooling for whatever reason it's not the end of the world if they repeat a grade . In my daughter's case she was able to consolidate and do really well by the end of her schooling . I hope things improve for Lucy . My love to you both, Cate
03/07/2008 @ 13:46 UMxx said

Yes Cate It could be a good idea to go with her to a therapist - she has a fixed idea of child psychologists as I have a friend who works with the Dept of Health in this capacity and they get on fine but well she is like me and quite firm so I think L thinks she can see the whole picture. I will find a way - I did wonder if she needed to buy herself some time and repeat a grade but her reaction was somewhat akin to if I had been asked to accept at 50% wage cut for members in return for use of the bathroom. Should have seen the look - quite fierce. she is very bright and an allrounder - has loads of natural ability and gets concepts quickly on a good day - but when it is bad then she appears to be vague and disconnected. Her report card is fine so I don't really have a basis to hold her back. She is really more stressed by the amount of work rather than the difficulty of it, In an odd way the more difficult the work the better she performs.I am just really lucky with the teachers who work with her.
She is sleeping beside me again as I work - at least it is not the long process of getting her to go to bed now - she is happy to just lie down and drop off providing I am around.
I reckon we will get there. All my love back to you. UM
04/07/2008 @ 09:53 Mebenji said

Dear UM,
I feel certain you will all get there, as a family. :) The way you responded to your daughter that evening, though the news too brought tears to my eyes, I also felt my heart jump - for me, an unimaginably wonderful response! You kept your head (& I don't know how) and heard her, held her, let her cry...oh, so much love and compassion. (oh, teary even now!)
I'm curious, when you say she has a fixed idea of child psychologists... "I think L can see the whole picture" ? Can you expand on these thoughts, UM? If someday L does see a therapist, would she accept that as not 'weird', so different to her peers she would feel a need to hide? Or would she truly think it is simply a personal & private matter - without attaching emotional baggage to it?
Hoping, there is no rush, so long as you and hubby can support and guide her.
I am probably doing a tinsy bit of catastrophizing - looking for pitfalls that may not even be there! Tell me to shut up.
(((Hugs))) -Mebenji
04/07/2008 @ 12:30 UMxx said

"so I think L thinks she can see the whole picture."
Hey Benj, the words in this comment are mine and I think that the resizer has played a little trick on you. So it isn't that L can see the whole picture rather she thinks that she can. I think that she will accept that there are many who will be able to help here. So far I don't know what she thinks is weird. Maybe what Thorn says has a ring of truth in this - L thinks that I see a shrink so it is at least a normal thing within this family.
I don't think you are catastrophizing - I don't think this is within your experience as a child and it's easy to worry that things will go badly as it did for you. I constantly torture myself in thinking and reviewing how I parent the kids - it is not how I was parented - some of it is contextual buy the emotional stuff just was never available to me. She is still being very close to me and rather more focussed on writing in her diary. She recorded three songs tonight at her music lesson - An alicia keys song - oom papa from Oliver and Somebody to Watch over me. She always has a good friday having been off singing.
and Benj,
I will never tell you to shut up. In this house that would attract an financial penalty equal to a four letter word expletive.
I read one of L's essays from school today which her teacher told me about - it was her autobiography and was about her birthdate and all of the politicians she met and refered to me as the mother of unionmaids! Had me in stitches in part as she told a story about Gough sticking his finger in my husband's beer and sticking into her mouth as 8 months!
Would you think it odd if I suspect that I feel less alone in this stuff now? Not sure that is good or bad just is. love UM